AI is becoming ubiquitous in our lives. It shapes how we work, play, interact, create, and even manage our health—and this is only the beginning. To understand where we are and where we might go, we first need to understand how we got here. By tracing the evolving nature of machine intelligence, we can appreciate how today’s AI differs from its past and how it is likely to evolve. With that in mind, we can begin to ask the big questions: When should we trust AI over human judgment? How should we govern its development? How will it change what it means to be human? And what roles will humans play in the future of work?

To help us through this journey, I’m delighted to welcome back to TRIUM Connects Professor Vasant Dhar, the Robert A. Miller Professor at NYU’s Stern School of Business and Professor of Data Science at NYU. Vasant is one of the world’s leading thinkers on the impact of AI on society. He was present at the birth of AI and has been involved in every step of its evolution—both as an entrepreneur and as a scholar. He also hosts the acclaimed podcast Brave New World, which explores how machines are transforming humanity in the post-COVID era.

In this episode, we discuss his newest book, Thinking With Machines: The Brave New World of AI. It’s a remarkable hybrid: part autobiography, tracing how his professional life has intertwined with the development of AI; part user’s guide, offering a lucid framework for deciding when to trust machines over human control; and part deep dive into the philosophical and policy implications of creating an alien intelligence.

It was a real pleasure to welcome Vasant back onto the show. I learned a lot during our conversation, and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I did.